james84
Utente Registrato
Incidente A330 Air France Rio-Parigi 01/06/2009
- Autore Discussione Edo75
- Data d'inizio
Non sono d'accordo in nulla di questo commento. AF è una delle migliori compagnie aeree al mondo ed i suoi piloti, come tutti quelli che svolgono questo lavoro, sono fior di professionisti.
In certe situazioni purtroppo,spiace a dirlo, ma il fattore C ha un'importanza fondamentale.. stop
libicocco
Utente Registrato
- 1 Agosto 2008
- 1,105
- 196
Piu' che con freddezza con cautela e serieta'
Tra I giallo-oro la cialtroneria regna sovrana...putroppo ad ogni lvello
Non te lo sei sognato, l'ho letto anche io, adesso non ricordo dove, parlavano di un sedile, subito dopo ho letto anche di un relitto, forse un pezzo d'ala, lungo 7 metri!
ehm...ambasciator nn porta pena:
MÊME SI LE SÉISME ÉTAIT MODÉRÉ IL FAUT OSER PRENDRE EN CONSIDÉRATION LES COUCHES SISMIQUES!
il resto qui: http://www.meteoquake.org/sismique.html
lascio i commenti ai piloti, io sono ignorante in materia...
MÊME SI LE SÉISME ÉTAIT MODÉRÉ IL FAUT OSER PRENDRE EN CONSIDÉRATION LES COUCHES SISMIQUES!
il resto qui: http://www.meteoquake.org/sismique.html
lascio i commenti ai piloti, io sono ignorante in materia...
Ah si? E che credenziali avresti per sostenere questa ridicola affermazione? Sei pilota di Airbus? O magari hai già provato a volare con i tubi di Pitot fuori uso, la perdita degli ADR, dell'ISIS, in alternate law, senza le protezioni e senza alcun riferimento di velocità, altitudine e assetto di volo?
Trovati due corpi delle vittime dell'AF447
Air France passenger's body found
PARIS, France (CNN) -- The bodies of two men, one of whom was confirmed to be a passenger from the Air France plane that is believed to have crashed in the Atlantic Ocean on Monday, were found early Saturday, a Brazilian air force spokesman said.
Also found were a backpack and a leather briefcase containing an airplane ticket with a reservation code, which Air France verified belonged to a passenger on the jet, Jorge Amaral said.
The Brazilian navy and air force said the backpack contained a laptop, and an oxygen mask also was discovered, the Brazilian navy and air force said.
Air force officials announced the news in Recife, Brazil. The items were discovered 420 miles north of the Fernando de Noronha islands, 220 miles (355 kilometers) off the northeast coast of Brazil.
It is not clear where the plane crashed, since ocean currents likely caused the bodies and debris to drift in the six days since the crash.
All 228 passengers and crew aboard the Airbus 330 are presumed to have died when the plane disappeared northeast of the islands.
The flight originated in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, and was en route to Paris, France.
Search teams were still trying to find debris from the jet Saturday, two days after an air force official said debris plucked from the ocean was not from the Air France jet.
Earlier Saturday, aviation investigators said Flight 447 sent out 24 automated error messages, including one saying the aircraft's autopilot had disengaged, before it vanished with 228 people on board.
The error messages suggest that the plane may have been flying too fast or too slow through severe thunderstorms it encountered before the crash, officials said.
They also reported that the airline had failed to replace a part, as recommended by the manufacturer, Airbus.
Airbus had advised airlines to update a piece of equipment that is part of the system that monitors airspeed called a pitot tube. The recommendation was a result of technological developments and improvements, an Airbus spokesman told CNN's Richard Quest. The change was not mandatory, and the spokesman would not comment on Air France's failure to follow the advice.
Planes have crashed because of faulty or blocked pitot tubes in the past, Quest said, and there was clearly something wrong with the doomed plane's speed-monitoring equipment.
But it may be a mistake to place too much emphasis on the pitot tubes, he added, as the jet apparently was experiencing massive system failures.
Even as they analyzed the error messages and satellite images of the doomed flight's path, investigators said they still have a lot of work to determine what caused the plane to go down.
"I would just like to ask you to bear in mind that all of this is dynamic and there are a lot of question marks," said Paul-Louis Arslanian, head of France's accident investigation bureau.
"We don't know how the aircraft entered the water. We don't know how these pieces of debris entered into the water and that you have to take into account the current ... and the shape of the ocean floor."
The error messages suggest that the plane may have been flying too fast or too slow through the stormy weather it encountered before the crash, officials said.
In addition, investigators have said the plane's autopilot disengaged, cabin pressure was lost, and there was an electrical failure before the disaster.
The jet's manufacturer, Airbus, sent a Telex to operators of Airbus models reminding them of what to do when speed indicators give conflicting readings.
The spokesman said the notice does not mean there is any major flaw in the aircraft but is simply a reminder to pilots of what to do in the cockpit if they get conflicting information about air speed.
Air France passenger's body found
PARIS, France (CNN) -- The bodies of two men, one of whom was confirmed to be a passenger from the Air France plane that is believed to have crashed in the Atlantic Ocean on Monday, were found early Saturday, a Brazilian air force spokesman said.
Also found were a backpack and a leather briefcase containing an airplane ticket with a reservation code, which Air France verified belonged to a passenger on the jet, Jorge Amaral said.
The Brazilian navy and air force said the backpack contained a laptop, and an oxygen mask also was discovered, the Brazilian navy and air force said.
Air force officials announced the news in Recife, Brazil. The items were discovered 420 miles north of the Fernando de Noronha islands, 220 miles (355 kilometers) off the northeast coast of Brazil.
It is not clear where the plane crashed, since ocean currents likely caused the bodies and debris to drift in the six days since the crash.
All 228 passengers and crew aboard the Airbus 330 are presumed to have died when the plane disappeared northeast of the islands.
The flight originated in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, and was en route to Paris, France.
Search teams were still trying to find debris from the jet Saturday, two days after an air force official said debris plucked from the ocean was not from the Air France jet.
Earlier Saturday, aviation investigators said Flight 447 sent out 24 automated error messages, including one saying the aircraft's autopilot had disengaged, before it vanished with 228 people on board.
The error messages suggest that the plane may have been flying too fast or too slow through severe thunderstorms it encountered before the crash, officials said.
They also reported that the airline had failed to replace a part, as recommended by the manufacturer, Airbus.
Airbus had advised airlines to update a piece of equipment that is part of the system that monitors airspeed called a pitot tube. The recommendation was a result of technological developments and improvements, an Airbus spokesman told CNN's Richard Quest. The change was not mandatory, and the spokesman would not comment on Air France's failure to follow the advice.
Planes have crashed because of faulty or blocked pitot tubes in the past, Quest said, and there was clearly something wrong with the doomed plane's speed-monitoring equipment.
But it may be a mistake to place too much emphasis on the pitot tubes, he added, as the jet apparently was experiencing massive system failures.
Even as they analyzed the error messages and satellite images of the doomed flight's path, investigators said they still have a lot of work to determine what caused the plane to go down.
"I would just like to ask you to bear in mind that all of this is dynamic and there are a lot of question marks," said Paul-Louis Arslanian, head of France's accident investigation bureau.
"We don't know how the aircraft entered the water. We don't know how these pieces of debris entered into the water and that you have to take into account the current ... and the shape of the ocean floor."
The error messages suggest that the plane may have been flying too fast or too slow through the stormy weather it encountered before the crash, officials said.
In addition, investigators have said the plane's autopilot disengaged, cabin pressure was lost, and there was an electrical failure before the disaster.
The jet's manufacturer, Airbus, sent a Telex to operators of Airbus models reminding them of what to do when speed indicators give conflicting readings.
The spokesman said the notice does not mean there is any major flaw in the aircraft but is simply a reminder to pilots of what to do in the cockpit if they get conflicting information about air speed.
Immagino che questo commento si riferisse alla professionalità dell'equipaggio Delta atterrato in emergenza a Bangor - non ai piloti del volo AF447.
grazie per le risposte sulla "tracciabilità" satellitare, in effetti un conto è ricevere ed elaborare off-line dei dati, un'altra storia è ri-trasmetterli verso i satelliti ad una velocità di crociera di oltre 800Km/h.
Cmq leggendo attentamente i vari post di questo thread mi sono reso conto dell'elevata qualità di questo forum, complimenti !
La cosa però che più mi ha sorpreso sulle ricerca delle cause del disastro è la quasi mancanza assoluta di info provenienti dai piloti dei voli appena precedenti/successivi all'AF447.
E' noto che molti voli partono alla sera in orari molto ravvicinati dalle grosse città del sud america come Rio, SanPaolo e BuenosAires verso l'Europa.
Mi aspetto anche che le tratte transoceaniche da questi 3 grandi aereoporti di partenza siano simili e quindi questi "corridoi aerei" siano stati abbastanza densi di aerei...
Insomma, per farla breve, possibile che non ci sia stato un velivolo in coda sulla stessa tratta che abbia fatto un report dettagliato di quella tragica notte di perturbazione equatoriale ?
Cmq leggendo attentamente i vari post di questo thread mi sono reso conto dell'elevata qualità di questo forum, complimenti !
La cosa però che più mi ha sorpreso sulle ricerca delle cause del disastro è la quasi mancanza assoluta di info provenienti dai piloti dei voli appena precedenti/successivi all'AF447.
E' noto che molti voli partono alla sera in orari molto ravvicinati dalle grosse città del sud america come Rio, SanPaolo e BuenosAires verso l'Europa.
Mi aspetto anche che le tratte transoceaniche da questi 3 grandi aereoporti di partenza siano simili e quindi questi "corridoi aerei" siano stati abbastanza densi di aerei...
Insomma, per farla breve, possibile che non ci sia stato un velivolo in coda sulla stessa tratta che abbia fatto un report dettagliato di quella tragica notte di perturbazione equatoriale ?
...le condizioni meteorologiche possono essere estremamente mutevoli anche in un lasso breve di tempo. fino ad ora sappiamo che il volo iberia rio-madrid, indietro di circa 80 miglia sulla stessa rotta, ha "scansato" il sistema convettivo in cui invece pare essersi infilato l'AF 447.
willy79
Utente Registrato
Pitot......
"Paris, 06 June 2009 - 23:09 local time
Following the many questions which have appeared in the media on the issue of the Pitot probes in its fleet (the Pitot probe is an instrument which measures the air speed of the aircraft), Air France wishes to make the following clarifications:
1) Malfunctions in the Pitot probes on the A 320 led the manufacturer to issue a recommendation in September 2007 to change the probes. This recommendation also applies to long-haul aircraft using the same probes and on which a very few incidents of a similar nature had occurred.
It should be noted that a recommendation from the manufacturer gives the operator total freedom to apply the corresponding guidelines fully, partially or not at all. Should flight safety be concerned, the manufacturer, together with the authorities, issues a mandatory service bulletin followed by an airworthiness directive (AD).
The recommendation to change the probes was implemented by Air France on its A320 fleet where this type of incident involving water ingress had been observed. It was not implemented on the A340/330s as no such incidents had been noted.
2) Starting in May 2008 Air France experienced incidents involving a loss of airspeed data in flight, in cruise phase on A340s and A330s. These incidents were analysed with Airbus as resulting from pitot probe icing for a few minutes, after which the phenomenon disappeared. Discussions subsequently took place with the manufacturer. Air France asked for a solution which would reduce or eliminate the occurrence of these incidents. In response to these requests, the manufacturer indicated that the probe model recommended for the A320 was not designed to prevent such incidents which took place at cruise levels, and reiterated the operational procedures well-known to the crews.
In the first quarter of 2009 laboratory tests suggested, however, that the new probe could represent a valuable improvement to reduce the incidence of high altitude airspeed discrepancy resulting from pitot probe icing, and an in service evaluation in real flight conditions was proposed by Airbus. Without waiting for the in service evaluation, Air France decided to replace all its probes and the programme was launched on 27 April 2009.
Without making any assumptions as to a possible link with the causes of the accident, Air France speeded up this programme and reminded its pilots of the current instructions issued by the manufacturer to cope with the loss of airspeed data."
altri eventi simili :
# 1 August 2005 - Malaysia Airlines Flight 124, a Boeing 777-2H6ER departed Perth, Western Australia for Kuala Lumpur. Climbing through 38,000 feet a faulty accelerometer caused the aircraft's ADIRU and autopilot to command changes of altitude. The flight crew overrode the system and manually returned to land the aircraft at Perth. The subsequent ATSB investigation led the US FAA to issue emergency airworthiness directive 2005-18-51 on the fly-by-wire software.[12]
# 6 August 2008 - The FAA issued airworthiness directive 2008-17-12 expanding on the requirements of the earlier AD 2003-26-03 which had been determined to be an insufficient remedy. In some cases it called for replacement of ADIRUs with newer models, but allowed 46 months from October 2008 to implement the directive.[13]
# 7 October 2008 - Qantas Airlines Flight 72, an Airbus A330 departed Singapore for Perth. Some time into the flight, while cruising at 37,000ft, a failure in the No.1 ADIRU led to the autopilot automatically disengaging followed by two sudden uncommanded pitch down manoeuvres, according to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB). The accident injured up to 74 passengers and crew, ranging from minor to serious injuries. The aircraft was able to make an emergency landing without further injuries. The aircraft was equipped with a Northrop Grumman made ADIRS, which investigators sent to the manufacturer for further testing.[14][15]
# 15 January 2009 - The EASA issues Emergency Airworthiness Directive No 2009-0012-E to address the above A330 and A340 Northrop-Grumman ADIRU problem of incorrectly responding to a defective inertial reference.
An Air France Airbus A340-300, registration F-GLZL performing flight AF-279 from Tokyo Narita (Japan) to Paris Charles de Gaulle (France), was enroute at FL310, when the airplane went through a line of thunderstorms. The captain's air speed indication suddenly dropped to 140 knots, the systems issued an alert regarding disagreeing speeds (NAV IAS DISCREPANCY), the navigation display showed a tail wind component of 250 knots. The captain released control of the airplane to the first officer and tried to switch his display from ADIRU1 to ADIRU3. 2 minutes later autopilot and autothrust disconnected and the fly by wire changed into alternate law. The crew noticed icing conditions (static air temperature [SAT] -29 degrees Centigrade) and switched anti ice including pitot heating systems from automatic to on. The speed indications became normal again and agreed again, the autoflight systems were reengaged and ATC informed of severe icing. ATC reported, that two flights had just passed the location without problems. When the crew attempted to reset and reengage ADIRU 1 two times, the system again brought the message "NAV IAS DISCREPANCY" on both attempts, although the speed data appeared consistent. The crew suspected polluted pitot tubes.
Maintenance found, that the drainage holes of all three pitot tubes had been clogged, rendering it very likely that weather combined with the clogged drainage holes caused the incident. Maintenance had reported more clogged drainage holes on A330 and A340 aircraft in the past to Airbus Industries. Airbus Industries was aware of the problems, changes had already been introduced to the pitot tubes on the A320 family, where similiar problems had occured. A modification of the A330/A340 pitot tubes was already planned by AI.
Second incident: An Air France Airbus A340-300, registration F-GLZN performing a flight from Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) to New York JFK,NY (USA), encountered brief turbulence while enroute. The autoflight systems dropped offline, "NAV IAS DISCREPANCY", "NAV PRED W/S DET FAULT" and stall alerts were repeatedly issued during the following two minutes. The airplane continued to JFK without further incident. A review of the policy of retrofitting pitot tubes was recommended and authorities informed. "
Old Crow
"Paris, 06 June 2009 - 23:09 local time
Following the many questions which have appeared in the media on the issue of the Pitot probes in its fleet (the Pitot probe is an instrument which measures the air speed of the aircraft), Air France wishes to make the following clarifications:
1) Malfunctions in the Pitot probes on the A 320 led the manufacturer to issue a recommendation in September 2007 to change the probes. This recommendation also applies to long-haul aircraft using the same probes and on which a very few incidents of a similar nature had occurred.
It should be noted that a recommendation from the manufacturer gives the operator total freedom to apply the corresponding guidelines fully, partially or not at all. Should flight safety be concerned, the manufacturer, together with the authorities, issues a mandatory service bulletin followed by an airworthiness directive (AD).
The recommendation to change the probes was implemented by Air France on its A320 fleet where this type of incident involving water ingress had been observed. It was not implemented on the A340/330s as no such incidents had been noted.
2) Starting in May 2008 Air France experienced incidents involving a loss of airspeed data in flight, in cruise phase on A340s and A330s. These incidents were analysed with Airbus as resulting from pitot probe icing for a few minutes, after which the phenomenon disappeared. Discussions subsequently took place with the manufacturer. Air France asked for a solution which would reduce or eliminate the occurrence of these incidents. In response to these requests, the manufacturer indicated that the probe model recommended for the A320 was not designed to prevent such incidents which took place at cruise levels, and reiterated the operational procedures well-known to the crews.
In the first quarter of 2009 laboratory tests suggested, however, that the new probe could represent a valuable improvement to reduce the incidence of high altitude airspeed discrepancy resulting from pitot probe icing, and an in service evaluation in real flight conditions was proposed by Airbus. Without waiting for the in service evaluation, Air France decided to replace all its probes and the programme was launched on 27 April 2009.
Without making any assumptions as to a possible link with the causes of the accident, Air France speeded up this programme and reminded its pilots of the current instructions issued by the manufacturer to cope with the loss of airspeed data."
altri eventi simili :
# 1 August 2005 - Malaysia Airlines Flight 124, a Boeing 777-2H6ER departed Perth, Western Australia for Kuala Lumpur. Climbing through 38,000 feet a faulty accelerometer caused the aircraft's ADIRU and autopilot to command changes of altitude. The flight crew overrode the system and manually returned to land the aircraft at Perth. The subsequent ATSB investigation led the US FAA to issue emergency airworthiness directive 2005-18-51 on the fly-by-wire software.[12]
# 6 August 2008 - The FAA issued airworthiness directive 2008-17-12 expanding on the requirements of the earlier AD 2003-26-03 which had been determined to be an insufficient remedy. In some cases it called for replacement of ADIRUs with newer models, but allowed 46 months from October 2008 to implement the directive.[13]
# 7 October 2008 - Qantas Airlines Flight 72, an Airbus A330 departed Singapore for Perth. Some time into the flight, while cruising at 37,000ft, a failure in the No.1 ADIRU led to the autopilot automatically disengaging followed by two sudden uncommanded pitch down manoeuvres, according to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB). The accident injured up to 74 passengers and crew, ranging from minor to serious injuries. The aircraft was able to make an emergency landing without further injuries. The aircraft was equipped with a Northrop Grumman made ADIRS, which investigators sent to the manufacturer for further testing.[14][15]
# 15 January 2009 - The EASA issues Emergency Airworthiness Directive No 2009-0012-E to address the above A330 and A340 Northrop-Grumman ADIRU problem of incorrectly responding to a defective inertial reference.
An Air France Airbus A340-300, registration F-GLZL performing flight AF-279 from Tokyo Narita (Japan) to Paris Charles de Gaulle (France), was enroute at FL310, when the airplane went through a line of thunderstorms. The captain's air speed indication suddenly dropped to 140 knots, the systems issued an alert regarding disagreeing speeds (NAV IAS DISCREPANCY), the navigation display showed a tail wind component of 250 knots. The captain released control of the airplane to the first officer and tried to switch his display from ADIRU1 to ADIRU3. 2 minutes later autopilot and autothrust disconnected and the fly by wire changed into alternate law. The crew noticed icing conditions (static air temperature [SAT] -29 degrees Centigrade) and switched anti ice including pitot heating systems from automatic to on. The speed indications became normal again and agreed again, the autoflight systems were reengaged and ATC informed of severe icing. ATC reported, that two flights had just passed the location without problems. When the crew attempted to reset and reengage ADIRU 1 two times, the system again brought the message "NAV IAS DISCREPANCY" on both attempts, although the speed data appeared consistent. The crew suspected polluted pitot tubes.
Maintenance found, that the drainage holes of all three pitot tubes had been clogged, rendering it very likely that weather combined with the clogged drainage holes caused the incident. Maintenance had reported more clogged drainage holes on A330 and A340 aircraft in the past to Airbus Industries. Airbus Industries was aware of the problems, changes had already been introduced to the pitot tubes on the A320 family, where similiar problems had occured. A modification of the A330/A340 pitot tubes was already planned by AI.
Second incident: An Air France Airbus A340-300, registration F-GLZN performing a flight from Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) to New York JFK,NY (USA), encountered brief turbulence while enroute. The autoflight systems dropped offline, "NAV IAS DISCREPANCY", "NAV PRED W/S DET FAULT" and stall alerts were repeatedly issued during the following two minutes. The airplane continued to JFK without further incident. A review of the policy of retrofitting pitot tubes was recommended and authorities informed. "
Old Crow
RWY07
Utente Registrato
asessa
Utente Registrato
- 6 Novembre 2005
- 11,896
- 306