Usa: elicottero e piccolo aereo si scontrano sul fiume Hudson a New York


azz brutta storia:( un pensiero!
pensare che lunedi sono a newyork e aveva una mezza intenzione di fare il giro in elicottero

RIP
Comunque così come succede per gli incidenti aerei, non deve diventare una fobia....gli incidenti possono capitare sempre e comunque....ed è un'esperienza che va fatta nella vita...
Qui due foto fatte un annetto fa...

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Ragazzi...non ci posso credere....
Un mese fa io era li vicino a quel canale.......ed ora guardo il tg e comprendo che uno dei ragazzi morti ha preso per 3 anni l'autobus con me per andare a scuola.........mi viene solo da pensare....che disgrazia.....
Sono curioso di sapere se è come penso io colpa del Piper.....
 
... ma come si puo' permettere il volo a vista su un'area cosi' trafficata? A questo punto penso che fino ad ora sia andata anche fin troppo bene ... :sconfortato:
 
RIP

Le 5 vittime italiane sono di due famiglie di Trebbo di Reno (BO), doveva essere a bordo anche una 6° italiana (moglie e mamma di due delle vittime) ma ha avuto paura prima del decollo ed è rimasta a terra.
 
Un bel pastrocchio non c'e' che dire qualcuno dei 2 l'ha fatta grossa...

Anni fa sbucando da una nuvola mi sono trovato un C130 americano in bocca che aveva appena fatto altrettanto...
..spedalata veloce..ma mi son visto la sua deriva passarmi di fianco..a pochi metri..a volte succede...il controllo radar militare non ha fatto un soffio...
un pensiero alle vittime
MF
 
... ma come si puo' permettere il volo a vista su un'area cosi' trafficata? A questo punto penso che fino ad ora sia andata anche fin troppo bene ... :sconfortato:

Se sapessi quanti traffici (aerei ed elicotteri) ci sono ogni giorno tra saronno bergamo e i laghi (maggiore e como), tutti in vfr e spesso a poche centinaia di metri di distanza tra di loro...
Per non parlare di altre zone nel mondo, anche molto più trafficate.
Le regole ci sono, basta stare attenti e rispettarle, vfr o ifr che siano.

Un pensiero per le vittime.
 
Una preghiera per i morti.
Nel frattempo inizia il sensazionalismo del giornalismo nostrano

Ecco il titolo del Corriere in questo momento

New York: elicottero aveva 12 anni

Come se fosse una notizia rilevante.
 
... ma come si puo' permettere il volo a vista su un'area cosi' trafficata? A questo punto penso che fino ad ora sia andata anche fin troppo bene ... :sconfortato:

perchè tu aspetti di andare in autstrada quando c'è un km tra un auto e l'altra?

eppure l'anno scorso sulla A4 un tir ne ha spiaccicate un bel po'

ciuaz sky3boy

ps e poi come pensi si possa volare li se non in VFR?
 
Un pensiero alle vittime.
Chi ha avuto modo di stare a Manhattan per un pò si sarà reso conto della mole incredibile di traffico che sorvola l'isola e ancor di più ci si rende conto quando si decolla da NY. Non deve essere per niente facile coordinare quel casino. Ricordo il decollo per Orlando quest'inverno, non ho mai visto tanti aerei in volo tutti insieme! Poveri cristi che riposino in pace
 
NEW YORK - Primi risultati dell'inchiesta per lo scontro tra un elicottero e un Piper sabato scorso sul fiume Hudson, a New York, nel quale sono morte otto persone, tra le quali cinque italiani le cui salme sono rientrate venerdì in Italia.

SOSPESI - La Federal Aviation Administration (Faa) e il National Transport Safety Board (Ntsb) hanno sospeso il controllore di volo di Teterboro cui era stato assegnato il compito di seguire la rotta dell'aereo da turismo, anche se al momento dell'impatto la titolarità del controllo era passata allo scalo di Newark. Ma gli ispettori hanno accertato che appena prima della sciagura stava effettuando alcune telefonate personali. Secondo l'Ntsb il suo comportamento non sembra aver avuto alcuna conseguenza sulla dinamica degli eventi, ma la sua condotta è stata giudicata «inaccettabile» ed è stato posto in congedo forzato. Il suo superiore, invece, avrebbe dovuto essere in servizio ma è risultato assente.



Video dell'incidente
 
il video fa gelare il sangue... quello che non riesco a immaginare è come fai, con un cielo cosi, a non vedere un elicottero scuro appena a sinistra della tua rotta...

io un idea me la sono fatta ma aspetto l'inchiesta per esprimermi...
 
il video fa gelare il sangue... quello che non riesco a immaginare è come fai, con un cielo cosi, a non vedere un elicottero scuro appena a sinistra della tua rotta...

io un idea me la sono fatta ma aspetto l'inchiesta per esprimermi...

Esattamente quello che mi sto chiedendo , dopo aver visto il video 2 minuti fa.
Le rotte convergono con un angolo tale da vedersi tranquillamente per tempo.
Primo , perche' sono alla stessa quota..
secondo come dicevo prima l'angolo e' aperto ,e il pilota del Piper vedeva tranquillamente l'elicottero alle sue ore 10/11....
bastava una piu' o meno leggera virata a DX in basso e si sarebbe evitato il tutto ...
Stessa cosa per l'elicottero...4 occhi vedono piu' di due....
Non saprei come il controllo avrebbe potuto risolvere la cosa , a quote cosi' basse e a distanza cosi' brevi....
Bisogna avere gli occhi incollati allo schermo..e questo con un diametro di 2 metri .....
Tutto questo a parole...i fatti sono ben diversi.....
Pero' sono sempre del parere che bisogna discuterne...con cognizione di causa ( certamente ) e senza dire e fare ipotesi che non stanno ne in cielo e in terra....
 
SCHIANTO SU HUDSON, CONTROLLORE DI VOLO PARLAVA A RAGAZZA
NEW YORK - Il controllore di volo dello scalo di Teterboro (New Jersey) parlava al telefono con la fidanzata sabato scorso durante la collisione tra un elicottero turistico e un Piper che è costata la vita a cinque italiani. Lo scrive il Daily News. Il supervisore del controllore era al momento irreperibile. Entrambi sono stati sospesi e probabilmente verranno licenziati, scrive il giornale. I nomi dei due controllori non sono stati al momento resi noti, ma sono al centro dell'indagine del National Transportation Safety Board e della Federal Aviation Administration. Nell'incidente di sabato scorso sono morte nove persone: i tre americani a bordo del Piper, il pilota neozelandese dell'elicottero e i cinque italiani. Secondo fonti citate dal Daily News, il comportamento del controllore di volo è stato "inaccettabile", anche se non sufficiente a provocare il disastro. Le due agenzie federali per la sicurezza del volo hanno scoperto le procedure scorrette ascoltando le registrazioni della torre di controllo di Teterboro, lo scalo da cui era decollato il Piper diretto a Ocean City. "Abbiamo appreso che si trattava di conversazioni inappropriate", ha detto l'amministratore della Faa Randy Babbitt: "Si tratta di una condotta inaccettabile. Abbiamo messo i responsabili in aspettativa e saranno aperte procedure disciplinari, anche se non ci sono ragioni di pensare che questi comportamenti abbiano contribuito all'incidente"

ansa.it
 
Esattamente quello che mi sto chiedendo , dopo aver visto il video 2 minuti fa.
Le rotte convergono con un angolo tale da vedersi tranquillamente per tempo.
Primo , perche' sono alla stessa quota..
secondo come dicevo prima l'angolo e' aperto ,e il pilota del Piper vedeva tranquillamente l'elicottero alle sue ore 10/11....
bastava una piu' o meno leggera virata a DX in basso e si sarebbe evitato il tutto ...
Stessa cosa per l'elicottero...4 occhi vedono piu' di due....
Non saprei come il controllo avrebbe potuto risolvere la cosa , a quote cosi' basse e a distanza cosi' brevi....
Bisogna avere gli occhi incollati allo schermo..e questo con un diametro di 2 metri .....
Tutto questo a parole...i fatti sono ben diversi.....
Pero' sono sempre del parere che bisogna discuterne...con cognizione di causa ( certamente ) e senza dire e fare ipotesi che non stanno ne in cielo e in terra....

Ti quoto in toto Davis... soprattutto... 4 paia di occhi sul Piper (senza contare il ragazzino)... 12 paia di occhi sull'elicottero... e NESSUNO si accorge di uno che sta venendoti adosso??
 
NTSB Advisory
National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594
August 14, 2009

NTSB ISSUES UPDATE ON ITS INVESTIGATION INTO THE MIDAIR COLLISION OVER THE HUDSON RIVER


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In its continuing investigation of the midair collision of an air tour helicopter and a small plane over the Hudson River on Saturday, the National Transportation Safety Board has developed the following factual information: On August 8, 2009, at 11:53 a.m. EDT, a Eurocopter AS 350 BA (N401LH) operated by Liberty Helicopters and a Piper PA-32R- 300 (N71MC) operated by a private pilot, collided in midair over the Hudson River near Hoboken, New Jersey. The certificated commercial pilot and five passengers onboard the helicopter were killed. The certificated private pilot and two passengers onboard the airplane were also killed. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plans were filed for either flight. The local sightseeing helicopter flight was conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 136. The personal airplane flight was conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.

The helicopter departed West 30th Street Heliport (JRA), New York, New York, for a sightseeing tour at 11:52 a.m. The airplane departed Teterboro Airport (TEB), Teterboro, New Jersey, at 11:49 a.m.; destined for Ocean City Municipal Airport (26N), Ocean City, New Jersey. The airplane pilot requested an en route altitude of 3500 feet.

According to preliminary radar data, the helicopter turned south from JRA and climbed to 1,100 feet, with a transponder code of 1200. According to witnesses, the pilot of the helicopter had transmitted a position report of "Stevens Point" (Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New Jersey) on the common traffic advisory frequency (CTAF), 123.05.

On the day of the accident, Teterboro Air Traffic Control Tower staff consisted of five controllers. At the time of the accident, the tower was staffed with two controllers: one controller was working ground control, local control, and arrival radar, and was also acting as the controller in charge of the facility. The second controller was working the flight data/clearance delivery position. Two other controllers were on break and the front line manager had left the facility at about 1145.

At 1148:30, the Teterboro tower controller cleared the airplane for takeoff on frequency 119.50. The first radar target for the airplane was recorded at 1149:55 as the flight departed runway 19.

The tower controller advised the airplane and the pilot of another helicopter operating in the area of each other and instructed the pilot of the airplane to remain at or below 1,100 feet. At this time, the tower controller initiated a non-business-related phone call to Teterboro Airport Operations. The airplane flew southbound until the controller instructed its pilot to turn left to join the Hudson River. At 1152:20 the Teterboro controller instructed the pilot to contact Newark on a frequency of 127.85; the airplane reached the Hudson River just north of Hoboken about 40 seconds later. At that time there were several aircraft detected by radar in the area immediately ahead of the airplane, including the accident helicopter, all of which were potential traffic conflicts for the airplane. The Teterboro tower controller, who was engaged in a phone call at the time, did not advise the pilot of the potential traffic conflicts. The Newark tower controller observed air traffic over the Hudson River and called Teterboro to ask that the controller instruct the pilot of the airplane to turn toward the southwest to resolve the potential conflicts. The Teterboro controller then attempted to contact the airplane but the pilot did not respond. The collision occurred shortly thereafter. A review of recorded air traffic control communications showed that the pilot did not call Newark before the accident occurred.

The helicopter departed from the 30th Street Heliport at 1152 for what was planned to be a 12-minute tour. The initial part of the tour was to be flown outside class B airspace, so the pilot was not required to contact air traffic control before or after departure. The first radar target for the helicopter was detected by Newark radar at about 1152:27, when the helicopter was approximately mid- river west of the heliport and climbing through 400 feet. According to recorded radar data, the helicopter flew to the west side of the river, and then turned southbound to follow the Hudson. According to Liberty Helicopters management, this was the expected path for the tour flight. The helicopter continued climbing southbound until 1153:14, when it and the airplane collided at 1,100 feet.

As noted above, immediately after the Teterboro tower controller instructed the airplane to contact Newark tower on frequency 127.85, the Newark controller called the Teterboro controller to request that they turn the airplane to a heading of 220 degrees (southwest) and transfer communications on the aircraft. As the Newark controller was providing the suggested heading to the Teterboro controller, the pilot of the airplane was acknowledging the frequency change to the Teterboro controller. The Teterboro controller made two unsuccessful attempts to reach the pilot, with the second attempt occurring at 1152:50. At 1152:54, 20 seconds prior to the collision, the radar data processing system detected a conflict between the airplane and the helicopter, which set off aural alarms and a caused a "conflict alert" indication to appear on the radar displays at both Teterboro and Newark towers. During interviews both controllers stated that they did not recall seeing or hearing the conflict alert. At 1153:19, five seconds after the collision, the Teterboro controller contacted the Newark controller to ask about the airplane, and was told that the pilot had not called. There were no further air traffic control contacts with either aircraft. The role that air traffic control might have played in this accident will be determined by the NTSB as the investigation progresses. Any opinions rendered at this time are speculative and premature.

Radar data and witness statements indicate that the aircraft collided at 1,100 feet in the vicinity of Stevens Point. Most of the wreckage fell in to the Hudson River; however, some small debris from the airplane, including the right main landing gear wheel, fell on land within the city limits of Hoboken. The collision was witnessed by numerous people in the area of the accident and was immediately reported to local emergency responders.

The helicopter was recovered on August 9, 2009. Most of the helicopter components were accounted for at the scene, with the exception of the main rotor and transmission. The airplane was recovered on August 11, 2009. Most of the airplane components were accounted for at the scene, with the exception of both wings. The wreckages were subsequently transported to a secure facility in Delaware.

The pilot of the airplane, age 60, held a private pilot certificate, with ratings for airplane single-engine land, airplane multiengine land and instrument airplane. His most recent FAA third-class medical certificate was issued on May 14, 2009. At that time he reported a total flight experience of 1,020 hours.

The pilot of the helicopter, age 32, held a commercial pilot certificate, with ratings for rotorcraft helicopter and instrument helicopter. His most recent FAA second-class medical certificate was issued on June 16, 2009. At that time he reported a total flight experience of 3,010 hours. Digital photographs and a video recording taken by witnesses to the accident have been provided to the NTSB. In addition, a digital camera was recovered from the helicopter. All of these were sent to the NTSB Vehicle Recorders Laboratory in Washington, DC for further examination. Global Positioning System units were recovered from both aircraft and also forwarded to the NTSB Vehicle Recorders Laboratory.

The recorded weather at TEB at 1151 was wind variable at 3 knots, visibility 10 miles, sky clear, temperature 24 degrees Celsius, dew point 7 degrees Celsius, altimeter 30.23 inches of mercury.

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NTSB Media Contact:
Keith Holloway
(202) 314-6100
 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: August 17, 2009 SB-09-44

NTSB RELIEVES AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS GROUP OF PARTY STATUS IN HUDSON RIVER MIDAIR COLLISION INVESTIGATION


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The National Transportation Safety Board today removed the National Air Traffic Controllers Association as a party to its investigation into the August 8 midair collision of two aircraft over the Hudson River that killed all 9 persons aboard.

Under the Safety Board's procedures, organizations and agencies are invited to participate in NTSB investigations if they can provide technical expertise. At the outset of the investigation, the organizations sign an agreement to abide by NTSB party rules. Among the rules parties agree to is that they will not reveal investigative information being learned through that process, nor publicly comment on it. Parties agree that only the NTSB will release factual information on the progress of the investigation and discuss the progress of the investigation with the public, including the news media.

On Friday, August 14, NATCA convened a press conference to discuss information released earlier that day by the NTSB. The organization was subsequently reminded of its responsibilities as a party to the investigation. This morning, NATCA issued a press release again discussing the information released, and conducted another press conference this afternoon.

Patrick Forrey, NATCA President, was informed today that his organization has been removed as a party to the investigation.

In light of conflicting interpretations of factual information released by the NTSB on Friday, the Board takes this opportunity to address the issue of the Teterboro controller's interaction with the accident airplane in the minutes before the collision:

According to preliminary data provided to the Safety Board by the Federal Aviation Administration, the controller cleared the accident airplane for departure at 11:48:30. The first radar target for the airplane was detected at 11:49:55, at about 300 feet. The controller initiated a non-business-related telephone conversation at 11:50:31. Prior to the Teterboro controller instructing the pilot to contact Newark Tower at 1152:20, there were several aircraft in the Hudson River Class B Exclusion Area in the vicinity of the airplane, some of which were potential traffic conflicts. These were detected by radar and displayed on the controller's scope in Teterboro tower. The Teterboro controller did not alert the airplane pilot to this traffic prior to instructing him to change his radio frequency and contact Newark. The accident helicopter was not visible on the Teterboro controller's radar scope at 1152:20; it did appear on radar 7 seconds later - at approximately 400 feet.

At 1152:54, 20 seconds prior to the collision, the radar data processing system detected a conflict between the accident airplane and the accident helicopter, which set off aural alarms and caused a "conflict alert" indication to appear on the radar displays at both Teterboro and Newark towers. The controller terminated his non-business-related telephone call at 11:53:13. The collision occurred at 11:53:14.

As the Safety Board stated in its media release on Friday, the role that air traffic control might have played in this accident will be determined by the NTSB as the investigation progresses. The Board is waiting for more detailed air traffic control-related data from the Federal Aviation Administration. Any opinions rendered at this time are speculative and premature.

"Although we appreciate the technical expertise our parties provide during the course of an investigation," NTSB Chairman Deborah A.P. Hersman said, "it is counterproductive when an organization breaches the party agreement and publicly interprets or comments on factual information generated by that investigation. Our rules are set up precisely to avoid the prospect of each party offering their slant on the information. I regret that we have had to remove NATCA from the investigation."


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NTSB Press Contact:

Ted Lopatkiewicz
(202) 314-6100
lopatt@ntsb.gov