Cade l'aereo del presidente polacco Kaczynski
- Autore Discussione geco4u
- Data d'inizio
Le trascrizioni sembrano confermare che diversi avvisi sono stati ignorati... perchè ? Troppa pressione psicologica sull'equipaggio?
New dalla Polonia
Hanno reso noto e fatto ascoltare alla televisione polacca i dialoghi delle registrazioni delel scatole nere per smorzare le polemiche.
L aereo in questione ,(ma non ci metto la mano sul fuoco perche sono ignorante in materia) dicono che e il terzo piu veloce del mondo ,con altissimi consumi,rumorosita e necessita di una pista piu lunga.
La pista in questione,e corta e in mezzo ad una valle o canalone.
Le condizioni erano di assoluta mancanza di visibilita.
Non avevano fatto il "pieno di carburante " usando cio che era rimasto dal volo precednete sempre a katyn del volo della delegazione ufficiale.
Avevano carburante appena sufficiente per decollare,e atterare a katyn senza imprevisti
L aereo era come dire "noleggiato"privatamente da da kacynsky che non era ufficialmente invitato alla cerimonia.
LA torre di controllo ha negato l autorizzazione,e non si poteva atterara a mosca per mancanza di carburante,e il piu alto militare in grado (completamente ignorante di aviazione d accordo con kacinsky presente sull aereo )e entrato in cabina ha praticamente ordinato al pilota di "suicidarsi" facendogli ignorare gli avvisi della torre e dell allarme di "pull up" o di terreno vicino,quando il pilota gli ha fatto notare che ormai erano morti ...il generale si e seduto e ha detto "OK mi siedo e aspetto".
... un bel pasticcio di sudditanza psicologica ,arroganza e superficialita
Hanno reso noto e fatto ascoltare alla televisione polacca i dialoghi delle registrazioni delel scatole nere per smorzare le polemiche.
L aereo in questione ,(ma non ci metto la mano sul fuoco perche sono ignorante in materia) dicono che e il terzo piu veloce del mondo ,con altissimi consumi,rumorosita e necessita di una pista piu lunga.
La pista in questione,e corta e in mezzo ad una valle o canalone.
Le condizioni erano di assoluta mancanza di visibilita.
Non avevano fatto il "pieno di carburante " usando cio che era rimasto dal volo precednete sempre a katyn del volo della delegazione ufficiale.
Avevano carburante appena sufficiente per decollare,e atterare a katyn senza imprevisti
L aereo era come dire "noleggiato"privatamente da da kacynsky che non era ufficialmente invitato alla cerimonia.
LA torre di controllo ha negato l autorizzazione,e non si poteva atterara a mosca per mancanza di carburante,e il piu alto militare in grado (completamente ignorante di aviazione d accordo con kacinsky presente sull aereo )e entrato in cabina ha praticamente ordinato al pilota di "suicidarsi" facendogli ignorare gli avvisi della torre e dell allarme di "pull up" o di terreno vicino,quando il pilota gli ha fatto notare che ormai erano morti ...il generale si e seduto e ha detto "OK mi siedo e aspetto".
... un bel pasticcio di sudditanza psicologica ,arroganza e superficialita
Ultima modifica:
Russia accusa: errore dei piloti polacchi
12 January 2011 Last updated at 12:31
Smolensk air crash: Russia blames Polish pilot error
Russia has blamed the Smolensk air crash which killed the Polish president and nearly 100 other people in April on Polish pilot error.
The Polish crew failed to heed bad weather warnings because they were afraid of displeasing President Lech Kaczynski, Russian investigators said.
The presence of Poland's air force commander in the cockpit drove them to take "unjustified risk", they said.
Poland's prime minister has cut short a holiday in response to the report.
A government spokesman said Donald Tusk was returning to Poland for talks with Poland's lead crash investigator, Jerzy Miller.
Last month, Mr Tusk sharply criticised a draft version of the Russian report.
Russia's handling of the disaster had previously been widely commended.
President Lech Kaczynski and 95 others, spanning the country's military and political elite, were killed when their airliner came down in heavy fog near the western Russian city of Smolensk. There were no survivors.
They had been on their way to a memorial ceremony for Poles massacred by Stalin's secret police at Katyn during World War II.
'Repeatedly informed'
Tatyana Anodina, head of the Inter-state Aviation Committee (Mak) in Moscow, told reporters that the final report had been handed to Polish colleagues.
The Soviet-made Tu-154 plane, she said, had been in good condition when it took off from Warsaw en route to Smolensk's Severny airport, and it suffered no engine or flight system failures.
Before impact, there was no fire, explosion or other damage in the air, she continued.
The disaster resulted directly, she said, from the crew's failure to heed weather warnings and land at a different airport.
"During the flight, the crew were repeatedly informed of inadequate weather conditions at the destination airport," she said.
"Despite this, the crew of the Tu-154 did not take a decision to switch to a back-up airfield. This may be considered as the start of the extreme situation aboard the plane."
The Russian investigation found "substantial deficiencies" in the training given to Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk and his co-pilot, Major Robert Grzywna, Ms Anodina said.
The two men had feared a "negative reaction" from President Kaczynski if they switched to the other airfield, according to the Russian investigator.
"The main passenger's expected negative reaction... placed psychological pressure on crew members and influenced the decision to continue the landing," she said.
The jet's flight recorder caught one of the crew saying "He'll get mad", in an apparent reference to the Polish president's determination not to alter his schedule.
'Landing at any cost'
Poland's air force commander, Gen Andrzej Blasik, added to the pressure by entering the flight deck, Ms Anodina noted.
"The presence of the Polish air force commander on the flight deck up to the aircraft's impact with the ground put psychological pressure on the crew captain to decide on continuing descent in a situation of unjustified risk, dominated by the goal of making a landing at any cost," she said.
According to pathology tests, alcohol was found in the blood of Gen Blasik in a concentration of 0.6 grams per litre - just above the drink-driving limit for most EU states.
Investigators found that a top Polish foreign ministry official, Mariusz Kazana, had also entered the flight deck at one point.
At the news conference in Moscow, they played back the flight recorder tape of the pilots' final minutes, including conversations with Russian air traffic controllers.
Just before the recording ends, an automatic recorded message in English from the plane's Terrain Awareness and Warning System can be heard exhorting the crew to "pull up, pull up".
'Negligence and mistakes'
In December, Mr Tusk described a draft of the Russian report as "unacceptable", saying some of its conclusions were unfounded.
Without revealing details, he said it did not comply fully with the Chicago Convention which regulates international air travel.
"This negligence and mistakes, or lack of positive reaction to what Poland has been asking for, all these things allow us to say that some of the report's conclusions are without foundation," he added.
On Wednesday, Mak official Alexei Morozov said his investigation had amended its report with regard to technical criticisms made by Polish investigators.
But other amendments suggested by the Poles relating to responsibility for the crash were not included in the report as they were non-technical, Mr Morozov said.
These amendments would, he added, be contained in an appendix to the report.
Lech Kaczynski's twin brother, former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski, recently said he doubted that the body entombed in a Polish cathedral last year was that of his brother.
"When I saw the body that was brought back in a coffin to Poland, that person did not look like my brother," he told reporters last month.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12170021
12 January 2011 Last updated at 12:31
Smolensk air crash: Russia blames Polish pilot error
Russia has blamed the Smolensk air crash which killed the Polish president and nearly 100 other people in April on Polish pilot error.
The Polish crew failed to heed bad weather warnings because they were afraid of displeasing President Lech Kaczynski, Russian investigators said.
The presence of Poland's air force commander in the cockpit drove them to take "unjustified risk", they said.
Poland's prime minister has cut short a holiday in response to the report.
A government spokesman said Donald Tusk was returning to Poland for talks with Poland's lead crash investigator, Jerzy Miller.
Last month, Mr Tusk sharply criticised a draft version of the Russian report.
Russia's handling of the disaster had previously been widely commended.
President Lech Kaczynski and 95 others, spanning the country's military and political elite, were killed when their airliner came down in heavy fog near the western Russian city of Smolensk. There were no survivors.
They had been on their way to a memorial ceremony for Poles massacred by Stalin's secret police at Katyn during World War II.
'Repeatedly informed'
Tatyana Anodina, head of the Inter-state Aviation Committee (Mak) in Moscow, told reporters that the final report had been handed to Polish colleagues.
The Soviet-made Tu-154 plane, she said, had been in good condition when it took off from Warsaw en route to Smolensk's Severny airport, and it suffered no engine or flight system failures.
Before impact, there was no fire, explosion or other damage in the air, she continued.
The disaster resulted directly, she said, from the crew's failure to heed weather warnings and land at a different airport.
"During the flight, the crew were repeatedly informed of inadequate weather conditions at the destination airport," she said.
"Despite this, the crew of the Tu-154 did not take a decision to switch to a back-up airfield. This may be considered as the start of the extreme situation aboard the plane."
The Russian investigation found "substantial deficiencies" in the training given to Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk and his co-pilot, Major Robert Grzywna, Ms Anodina said.
The two men had feared a "negative reaction" from President Kaczynski if they switched to the other airfield, according to the Russian investigator.
"The main passenger's expected negative reaction... placed psychological pressure on crew members and influenced the decision to continue the landing," she said.
The jet's flight recorder caught one of the crew saying "He'll get mad", in an apparent reference to the Polish president's determination not to alter his schedule.
'Landing at any cost'
Poland's air force commander, Gen Andrzej Blasik, added to the pressure by entering the flight deck, Ms Anodina noted.
"The presence of the Polish air force commander on the flight deck up to the aircraft's impact with the ground put psychological pressure on the crew captain to decide on continuing descent in a situation of unjustified risk, dominated by the goal of making a landing at any cost," she said.
According to pathology tests, alcohol was found in the blood of Gen Blasik in a concentration of 0.6 grams per litre - just above the drink-driving limit for most EU states.
Investigators found that a top Polish foreign ministry official, Mariusz Kazana, had also entered the flight deck at one point.
At the news conference in Moscow, they played back the flight recorder tape of the pilots' final minutes, including conversations with Russian air traffic controllers.
Just before the recording ends, an automatic recorded message in English from the plane's Terrain Awareness and Warning System can be heard exhorting the crew to "pull up, pull up".
'Negligence and mistakes'
In December, Mr Tusk described a draft of the Russian report as "unacceptable", saying some of its conclusions were unfounded.
Without revealing details, he said it did not comply fully with the Chicago Convention which regulates international air travel.
"This negligence and mistakes, or lack of positive reaction to what Poland has been asking for, all these things allow us to say that some of the report's conclusions are without foundation," he added.
On Wednesday, Mak official Alexei Morozov said his investigation had amended its report with regard to technical criticisms made by Polish investigators.
But other amendments suggested by the Poles relating to responsibility for the crash were not included in the report as they were non-technical, Mr Morozov said.
These amendments would, he added, be contained in an appendix to the report.
Lech Kaczynski's twin brother, former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski, recently said he doubted that the body entombed in a Polish cathedral last year was that of his brother.
"When I saw the body that was brought back in a coffin to Poland, that person did not look like my brother," he told reporters last month.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12170021
Purtroppo lo scambio di colpe continua...
http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2011/01/18/news/tupolev_polonia_accusa_russia-11375055/?ref=HREC1-8
http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2011/01/18/news/tupolev_polonia_accusa_russia-11375055/?ref=HREC1-8
resta comunque sconcertante che nonostante i ripetuti avvisi del gpws abbiano continuato la discesa.....si dice anche che il pilota si sia rifiutato di volare prima della partenza perchè non gli avevano fornito le info meteo precise ma è stato forzato dal capo dell'aeronautica....mi domando....può un pilota come protasiuk,che si era già ribellato in georgia non atterrando fra i missili,ignorare la situazione pericolosa,ignorare gli allarmi e continuare in questa maniera??...opinione personale..non era lui ai comandi!
Analisi dettagliata della catena di eventi (da far rabbrividire)
http://www.manualedivolo.it/index.p...tena-degli-eventi&catid=36:generale&Itemid=58
http://www.manualedivolo.it/index.p...tena-degli-eventi&catid=36:generale&Itemid=58
(AGI) - Mosca, 29 ott. - E' stato trovato morto a Varsavia uno dei testimoni chiave nell'inchiesta sul disastro aereo di Smolensk, in cui nel 2010 persero la vita il presidente polacco, Lech Kaczynski, e buona parte dell'elite politica del Paese. Lo ha reso noto un responsabile della procura distrettuale, Dariusz Sliepokura, il quale ha spiegato che gli inquirenti ritengono che l'uomo si sia impiccato. Il corpo di Remigiusz Mus - 42 anni, ingegnere aereo - e' stato rinvenuto nel seminterrato di un condominio, alla periferia della capitale polacca, dove abitava con la moglie.
Intervistato da Radio Polonia, Sliepokura ha dichiarato che non ci sono ragioni per sospettare il coinvolgimento di terzi nella morte di Mus. L'ingegnere si trovava nella cabina di pilotaggio di uno Yak-40 decollato da Smolensk, poco prima del tragico incidente.
Da li', grazie alla radio di bordo, aveva potuto sentire lo scambio di comunicazioni tra la torre di controllo dell'aeroporto russo e l'equipaggio del Tupolev Tu-154 polacco, che stava cercando di atterrare a Smolensk in difficili condizioni meteo. Nella sua testimonianza, Mus smentiva la commissione d'inchiesta del Mak (il Comitato aeronautico interstatale, che sovrintende l'uso e la gestione del settore dell'aviazione civile tra i Paesi Cis), sostenendo che era stata la torre di controllo ad autorizzare l'atterraggio, poi trasformatosi nella strage che ha rischiato di congelare i gia' tesi rapporti tra Mosca e Varsavia. Secondo il rapporto finale del Mak, i responsabili della catastrofe sarebbero i piloti del Tupolev. Ma secondo gli inquirenti polacchi, anche i controllori di volo russi, sotto pressione e al limite dello stress, hanno commesso molti errori e non hanno dato sufficiente appoggio all'equipaggio del Tupolev Tu-154. Inoltre, l'inchiesta e' stata caratterizzata dalle accuse di scarsa collaborazione da parte di Mosca, interessata - a detta di Varsavia - a coprire documenti invece necessari per stabilire l'accaduto.
Quel 10 aprile 2010, trasformatosi per la Polonia in tragedia nazionale, il presidente Kaczynski si stava recando a Katyn per la commemorazione dell'eccidio di 22.000 soldati polacchi da parte di Stalin. Sul Tu-154 volavano anche il presidente della Banca centrale polacca, Slawomir Skrzypek, il capo di Stato maggiore, Frantiszek Gagor, e diversi membri del Gabinetto. L'aereo e' precipitato nei pressi dell'aeroporto di Smolensk, dopo alcuni tentativi di atterraggio falliti per via della nebbia e delle difficili condizioni atmosferiche. Nello schianto non si salvo' nessuno. Il bilancio dell'incidente fu di 96 morti.
Intervistato da Radio Polonia, Sliepokura ha dichiarato che non ci sono ragioni per sospettare il coinvolgimento di terzi nella morte di Mus. L'ingegnere si trovava nella cabina di pilotaggio di uno Yak-40 decollato da Smolensk, poco prima del tragico incidente.
Da li', grazie alla radio di bordo, aveva potuto sentire lo scambio di comunicazioni tra la torre di controllo dell'aeroporto russo e l'equipaggio del Tupolev Tu-154 polacco, che stava cercando di atterrare a Smolensk in difficili condizioni meteo. Nella sua testimonianza, Mus smentiva la commissione d'inchiesta del Mak (il Comitato aeronautico interstatale, che sovrintende l'uso e la gestione del settore dell'aviazione civile tra i Paesi Cis), sostenendo che era stata la torre di controllo ad autorizzare l'atterraggio, poi trasformatosi nella strage che ha rischiato di congelare i gia' tesi rapporti tra Mosca e Varsavia. Secondo il rapporto finale del Mak, i responsabili della catastrofe sarebbero i piloti del Tupolev. Ma secondo gli inquirenti polacchi, anche i controllori di volo russi, sotto pressione e al limite dello stress, hanno commesso molti errori e non hanno dato sufficiente appoggio all'equipaggio del Tupolev Tu-154. Inoltre, l'inchiesta e' stata caratterizzata dalle accuse di scarsa collaborazione da parte di Mosca, interessata - a detta di Varsavia - a coprire documenti invece necessari per stabilire l'accaduto.
Quel 10 aprile 2010, trasformatosi per la Polonia in tragedia nazionale, il presidente Kaczynski si stava recando a Katyn per la commemorazione dell'eccidio di 22.000 soldati polacchi da parte di Stalin. Sul Tu-154 volavano anche il presidente della Banca centrale polacca, Slawomir Skrzypek, il capo di Stato maggiore, Frantiszek Gagor, e diversi membri del Gabinetto. L'aereo e' precipitato nei pressi dell'aeroporto di Smolensk, dopo alcuni tentativi di atterraggio falliti per via della nebbia e delle difficili condizioni atmosferiche. Nello schianto non si salvo' nessuno. Il bilancio dell'incidente fu di 96 morti.
Poland's Prime Minster Donald Tusk says he is going to look into reports that traces of explosives were found on the wreckage of the plane in which Poland's President Lech Kaczynski was killed in 2010.
Ninety-five other people on the flight also died when the plane crashed near Smolensk-Severny airport.
One of Poland's biggest newspapers, Rzeczpospolita, said traces of TNT and nitroglycerin were found on the plane's wings, inside the cabin and the area surrounding the crash site.
The report has revived speculation the president was assassinated, although it has been pointed out the traces might be from World War II bombs which can still be found in the Katyn Forest area, where Soviet security police shot more than 22,000 Poles in 1940.
Investigators are also considering the possibility the traces of explosives found could have come from the soil at the crash site, which once served as a military test range.
Polish PM Donald Tusk is to look into the claims
A government report in 2011 said the crash was not caused by an explosion but the Polish authorities did not have full access to the wreckage at that time.
The latest development comes shortly after a key witness in the inquiry was found hanged in the basement of his house in the outskirts of Warsaw. A post mortem is due to be held this week.
Remigiusz Mus, 42, was apparently due to tell investigators he heard two loud bangs just before the president's plane went down.
The former flight engineer also claimed he overheard a conversation between a Russian air traffic control officer and Mr Kaczynski's pilots while he was in the cabin of another aircraft which had just landed with a number of Polish journalists on board.
According to Mr Mus, the air traffic controller allowed it to descend in spite of heavy fog that severely restricted visibility on the day.
The head of the Polish Parliamentary Investigation Commission, Antoni Macierewicz, has called for the second main witness, a pilot on the journalists' plane, to be placed under protection from now on.
"We have an impression that the noose is tightening around the necks of anyone who knows what really happened in Smolensk," he said.
fonte: sky.com
Ninety-five other people on the flight also died when the plane crashed near Smolensk-Severny airport.
One of Poland's biggest newspapers, Rzeczpospolita, said traces of TNT and nitroglycerin were found on the plane's wings, inside the cabin and the area surrounding the crash site.
The report has revived speculation the president was assassinated, although it has been pointed out the traces might be from World War II bombs which can still be found in the Katyn Forest area, where Soviet security police shot more than 22,000 Poles in 1940.
Investigators are also considering the possibility the traces of explosives found could have come from the soil at the crash site, which once served as a military test range.
Polish PM Donald Tusk is to look into the claims
A government report in 2011 said the crash was not caused by an explosion but the Polish authorities did not have full access to the wreckage at that time.
The latest development comes shortly after a key witness in the inquiry was found hanged in the basement of his house in the outskirts of Warsaw. A post mortem is due to be held this week.
Remigiusz Mus, 42, was apparently due to tell investigators he heard two loud bangs just before the president's plane went down.
The former flight engineer also claimed he overheard a conversation between a Russian air traffic control officer and Mr Kaczynski's pilots while he was in the cabin of another aircraft which had just landed with a number of Polish journalists on board.
According to Mr Mus, the air traffic controller allowed it to descend in spite of heavy fog that severely restricted visibility on the day.
The head of the Polish Parliamentary Investigation Commission, Antoni Macierewicz, has called for the second main witness, a pilot on the journalists' plane, to be placed under protection from now on.
"We have an impression that the noose is tightening around the necks of anyone who knows what really happened in Smolensk," he said.
fonte: sky.com
Non credo sia un caso che proprio ora tornino alla ribalta certe teorie
Polonia: incidente aereo di Smolensk era attentato
Non un incidente ma un attentato. È la tesi della commissione governativa di inchiesta che punta a fare riaprire il caso dell'incidente aereo di Smoleńsk, in Russia, in cui morirono 96 persone. Era il 2010: a bordo anche l'allora presidente polacco Lech Kaczyński e sua moglie Maria; insieme a...
www.avionews.com
In Polonia “certe teorie” sono sempre state alla ribalta, non ricordo un giorno in cui la cosa non è stata discussa (o anche brevemente accennata) sui canali d’informazione polacchi, idem con la “pippa” della “richiesta risarcimento danni WWII” a Germania/Russia o le “scaramucce” quotidiane con Bruxelles… Nothing new under the sun.
G
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