Alitalia: Air France pronta a salire al 50%
- Autore Discussione AZ209
- Data d'inizio
- Stato
In molti caso le V libertà rappresentano pistole puntate alla tempia delle compagnie di riferimento.
Nel caso del mxp jfk non si capisce bene se la pistola è puntata alla tempia degli italiani o dei francesi.
E' vero.
Grazie per la correzione.
Anche l'articolo di Les Echos non diceva essere il primo caso, ma che l'abbiamo concessa pur avendo lo stesso volo della compagnia di bandiera.
Il senso non cambia: non mi sembriamo protezionisti. Semmai Tafazzi.
Un taglio delle rotte internazionali? E quindi cosa lascerebbe AF ad Alitalia oltre alle navette verso i propri HUB di riferimento? Le rotte nazionali, cioè quelle che vanno peggio??
Secondo me scontiamo più il prezzo di discutibili scelte politico amministrative, ma di carattere generale, come nazione.
E sbagliamo anche a ritenere che quello del trasporto aereo sia un business come tutti gli altri.
Pensa che io farei carte false per riuscire ad avere il 100% delle aziende italiane a capitale straniero.
Il sogno vero poi sarebbe che qualcuno si comprasse direttamente il paese e dicesse quindi agli italiani cosa fare e come devono fare.
questo andava bene forse, ma forse, 20 anni fa
oggi viviamo in condominio , con onori ed oneri , ma soprattutto regolamento condominiale continentale
E' di sicuro non abitiamo la penthouse....
Può darsi che tu non mi abbia capito.
Stato e mercato possono convivere e prosperare, ma a condizioni ben precise. Seguendo il tuo ragionamento, il regolamento di condominio, al Bronx, puoi immaginare che fine faccia.
Il punto è che lo Stato (sapiente), può regolare in senso positivo il mercato, ma difficilmente accade l'inverso.
COMPAGNIE
ALITALIA, AIR FRANCE
CHIEDE TAGLI AL PERSONALE
Parigi - Air France-Klm è disposta a partecipare ad un aumento di capitale «sostanzioso» in Alitalia se ci sarà un piano ben definito con tagli al personale, riduzione nel numero degli aeromobili e ristrutturazione del debito. Lo scrive il Financial Times, citando fonti vicino alla vicenda. «Non metteremo un soldo a meno che non ci sia tutta una serie di cambiamenti a livello operativo e strategico», spiegano le fonti al quotidiano della City, aggiungendo che in «tal caso il gruppo franco-olandese potrebbe anche essere interessato a rilevare la maggioranza di Alitalia».
ALITALIA, AIR FRANCE
CHIEDE TAGLI AL PERSONALE
Parigi - Air France-Klm è disposta a partecipare ad un aumento di capitale «sostanzioso» in Alitalia se ci sarà un piano ben definito con tagli al personale, riduzione nel numero degli aeromobili e ristrutturazione del debito. Lo scrive il Financial Times, citando fonti vicino alla vicenda. «Non metteremo un soldo a meno che non ci sia tutta una serie di cambiamenti a livello operativo e strategico», spiegano le fonti al quotidiano della City, aggiungendo che in «tal caso il gruppo franco-olandese potrebbe anche essere interessato a rilevare la maggioranza di Alitalia».
Questo è assolutamente certo, solo che noi siamo soggetti a regole comunitarie ed i singoli regolamenti statali perdono gradualmente efficacia ed operatività a beneficio di regole a piu' ampio spettro e piu' lungo profilo.
(copiate dagli americani eh ,... che non pensi che si siano inventati chissà cosa)
tra l'altro una decisiva componente dell'entita' che ha composto regole e normative, almeno nel settore aeronautico, era italiana
a volte anche se non hai l'attico, hai comunque qualcosa da dire anche alle assemblee condominiali...
Ultima modifica:
aaahhh se lo dicono le fonti vicino alla vicenda del Financial Times....se fosse stato il WSJ era di sicuro peggio
Ultima modifica:
Forse FT diceva qualcosa di piu' del "rimbalzino sopra"....
Air France-KLM seeks sweeping restructuring at Alitalia
By FT reporters
Air France-KLM is pushing for a sweeping restructuring of Alitalia, in a move that could finally pave the way for the Franco-Dutch airline group to merge with the Italian flag carrier.
Alexandre de Juniac, Air France-KLM’s chief executive since July, said the group – Alitalia’s largest shareholder with a 25 per cent stake – was ready to help the Italian carrier if certain conditions were met, adding that he could see a case for the two companies combining.
“Our conditions for helping Alitalia are very strict,” Mr de Juniac told Les Echos, without outlining the details. “If the conditions are met, I am ready to move.”
Mr de Juniac’s predecessor had long-held ambitions to secure control of Alitalia, and analysts believe Air France-KLM is still keen to do this, in spite of the Italian carrier’s deep-rooted problems. These difficulties highlight how several of Europe’s smaller flag carriers are struggling to secure their long-term futures following industry consolidation.
Air France-KLM has been a trailblazer in this consolidation, but it has significant differences to overcome with Alitalia before a deal could be done.
The Franco-Dutch group objected to plans set out in July by Gabriele Del Torchio, Alitalia’s chief executive since May, to launch new routes to Africa, Asia, the US and Latin America, because these flights can be lossmaking initially. The Italian carrier’s board is expected to discuss this issue on Thursday.
Air France-KLM’s representatives on the Alitalia board voted against the Italian carrier’s proposal on September 26 for shareholders to contribute at least €100m of new capital because this was not viewed as sufficient to put the company on a sustainable footing, said two people close to the Franco-Dutch group.
But Air France-KLM is willing to support and participate in a bigger capital increase at Alitalia if it is accompanied by reductions in the airline’s 14,000-strong workforce and fleet of 140 aircraft, plus a restructuring of its large debt load.
“We won’t inject cash [into Alitalia] unless there are a lot of changes in operations and strategy,” said one person close to Air France-KLM, adding that, in these circumstances, the group could be interested in becoming the controlling shareholder in Alitalia. Air France-KLM and Alitalia declined to comment.
Alitalia has not reported a full-year net profit since 2002. In the first half of 2013, it recorded a net loss of €294m, up from €201m in the same period last year.
Alitalia is burning through its available cash – it reported total liquidity, including unused credit lines, of €128m at June 30, compared with €159m at March 31.
Net debt stands at €946m, but could increase further because Alitalia is seeking new credit lines. Alitalia’s management, banks and Enrico Letta, Italy’s prime minister, met on Tuesday, and will hold more talks next week, aimed at breaking a deadlock over new loans worth €300m for the carrier.
Potential rival Alitalia bidders shy away
Etihad Airways, the Abu Dhabi-based carrier, has signalled it is not interested in investing in Alitalia, writes Andrew Parker.
Some analysts have suggested that state-controlled Etihad could be an alternative strategic investor to Air France-KLM, but one person close to the Gulf airline rejected this scenario. “We are not interested [in Alitalia],” said this person.
continue reading
Alitalia has been hit by strong competition on short and medium-haul routes from low-cost carriers led by Ryanair and easyJet, plus high-speed trains between Rome and Milan.
Some analysts view Alitalia’s long-haul business as subscale – it has 22 wide-body passenger jets; Air France-KLM has 106. However, these analysts see a logic to the Franco-Dutch group securing control of Alitalia – because Italy is a significant market for business and leisure travel.
Air France-KLM has a joint venture with Alitalia on routes between Paris and Amsterdam, and Rome and Milan. Although many of the Alitalia passengers on these routes from Italy only fly as far as Paris or Amsterdam, some transfer to Air France or KLM’s long-haul aircraft at these hubs.
Neil Glynn, analyst at Credit Suisse, says: “The stock market would not be surprised if Air France-KLM increased its investment in Alitalia. Air France-KLM will be keen to protect the valuable passenger traffic it secures from Alitalia at the flag carrier group’s Paris and Amsterdam hubs.”
Air France-KLM abandoned a bid for Alitalia in 2008 after Silvio Berlusconi, the former prime minister, campaigned against a foreign takeover. Instead, Alitalia entered bankruptcy protection, and was bought by Italian investors – who then sold a stake to Air France-KLM in 2009.
Today, the political situation in Italy is more favourable to Alitalia having Air France-KLM as its controlling shareholder, but there are also protectionist factions within Mr Letta’s centre-left party that would be likely to demand guarantees on jobs at the Italian carrier and preservation of its hub at Rome’s Fiumicino airport.
Furthermore, Air France-KLM finds itself in a difficult situation – both in terms of Franco-Dutch group’s finances and its labour relations.
Air France-KLM is the most leveraged of Europe’s big flag carrier groups, with net debt of €5.3bn, and therefore would be reluctant to assume Alitalia’s borrowings.
Air France-KLM reported a net loss of €793m for the first half of 2013, and is midway through a painful restructuring. On Friday, Air France is expected to outline details of how it will cut 2,800 jobs at the French airline – on top of 5,100 redundancies announced last year.
“If we have to reduce [the workforce] in France it is difficult to explain to trade unions that we have to find cash to invest [in Alitalia],” said one person close to Air France-KLM.
Reporting by Andrew Parker in London, Guy Dinmore in Rome, Rachel Sanderson in Milan, and Michael Stothard in Paris
Air France-KLM seeks sweeping restructuring at Alitalia
By FT reporters
Air France-KLM is pushing for a sweeping restructuring of Alitalia, in a move that could finally pave the way for the Franco-Dutch airline group to merge with the Italian flag carrier.
Alexandre de Juniac, Air France-KLM’s chief executive since July, said the group – Alitalia’s largest shareholder with a 25 per cent stake – was ready to help the Italian carrier if certain conditions were met, adding that he could see a case for the two companies combining.
“Our conditions for helping Alitalia are very strict,” Mr de Juniac told Les Echos, without outlining the details. “If the conditions are met, I am ready to move.”
Mr de Juniac’s predecessor had long-held ambitions to secure control of Alitalia, and analysts believe Air France-KLM is still keen to do this, in spite of the Italian carrier’s deep-rooted problems. These difficulties highlight how several of Europe’s smaller flag carriers are struggling to secure their long-term futures following industry consolidation.
Air France-KLM has been a trailblazer in this consolidation, but it has significant differences to overcome with Alitalia before a deal could be done.
The Franco-Dutch group objected to plans set out in July by Gabriele Del Torchio, Alitalia’s chief executive since May, to launch new routes to Africa, Asia, the US and Latin America, because these flights can be lossmaking initially. The Italian carrier’s board is expected to discuss this issue on Thursday.
Air France-KLM’s representatives on the Alitalia board voted against the Italian carrier’s proposal on September 26 for shareholders to contribute at least €100m of new capital because this was not viewed as sufficient to put the company on a sustainable footing, said two people close to the Franco-Dutch group.
But Air France-KLM is willing to support and participate in a bigger capital increase at Alitalia if it is accompanied by reductions in the airline’s 14,000-strong workforce and fleet of 140 aircraft, plus a restructuring of its large debt load.
“We won’t inject cash [into Alitalia] unless there are a lot of changes in operations and strategy,” said one person close to Air France-KLM, adding that, in these circumstances, the group could be interested in becoming the controlling shareholder in Alitalia. Air France-KLM and Alitalia declined to comment.
Alitalia has not reported a full-year net profit since 2002. In the first half of 2013, it recorded a net loss of €294m, up from €201m in the same period last year.
Alitalia is burning through its available cash – it reported total liquidity, including unused credit lines, of €128m at June 30, compared with €159m at March 31.
Net debt stands at €946m, but could increase further because Alitalia is seeking new credit lines. Alitalia’s management, banks and Enrico Letta, Italy’s prime minister, met on Tuesday, and will hold more talks next week, aimed at breaking a deadlock over new loans worth €300m for the carrier.
Potential rival Alitalia bidders shy away
Etihad Airways, the Abu Dhabi-based carrier, has signalled it is not interested in investing in Alitalia, writes Andrew Parker.
Some analysts have suggested that state-controlled Etihad could be an alternative strategic investor to Air France-KLM, but one person close to the Gulf airline rejected this scenario. “We are not interested [in Alitalia],” said this person.
continue reading
Alitalia has been hit by strong competition on short and medium-haul routes from low-cost carriers led by Ryanair and easyJet, plus high-speed trains between Rome and Milan.
Some analysts view Alitalia’s long-haul business as subscale – it has 22 wide-body passenger jets; Air France-KLM has 106. However, these analysts see a logic to the Franco-Dutch group securing control of Alitalia – because Italy is a significant market for business and leisure travel.
Air France-KLM has a joint venture with Alitalia on routes between Paris and Amsterdam, and Rome and Milan. Although many of the Alitalia passengers on these routes from Italy only fly as far as Paris or Amsterdam, some transfer to Air France or KLM’s long-haul aircraft at these hubs.
Neil Glynn, analyst at Credit Suisse, says: “The stock market would not be surprised if Air France-KLM increased its investment in Alitalia. Air France-KLM will be keen to protect the valuable passenger traffic it secures from Alitalia at the flag carrier group’s Paris and Amsterdam hubs.”
Air France-KLM abandoned a bid for Alitalia in 2008 after Silvio Berlusconi, the former prime minister, campaigned against a foreign takeover. Instead, Alitalia entered bankruptcy protection, and was bought by Italian investors – who then sold a stake to Air France-KLM in 2009.
Today, the political situation in Italy is more favourable to Alitalia having Air France-KLM as its controlling shareholder, but there are also protectionist factions within Mr Letta’s centre-left party that would be likely to demand guarantees on jobs at the Italian carrier and preservation of its hub at Rome’s Fiumicino airport.
Furthermore, Air France-KLM finds itself in a difficult situation – both in terms of Franco-Dutch group’s finances and its labour relations.
Air France-KLM is the most leveraged of Europe’s big flag carrier groups, with net debt of €5.3bn, and therefore would be reluctant to assume Alitalia’s borrowings.
Air France-KLM reported a net loss of €793m for the first half of 2013, and is midway through a painful restructuring. On Friday, Air France is expected to outline details of how it will cut 2,800 jobs at the French airline – on top of 5,100 redundancies announced last year.
“If we have to reduce [the workforce] in France it is difficult to explain to trade unions that we have to find cash to invest [in Alitalia],” said one person close to Air France-KLM.
Reporting by Andrew Parker in London, Guy Dinmore in Rome, Rachel Sanderson in Milan, and Michael Stothard in Paris
Non è detto: basta che le banche facciano la loro parte e se prende AF.
Non c'è un'opposizione troppo marcata ai francesi
Le banche hanno detto che metteranno i soldi solo se c'è un serio programma di investimento e sviluppo.
Se invece AF entra, di fatto AZ verrà ridotta a una piccola compagnia destinata a "servire" Parigi e Amsterdam.
Umilmente vedo le due posizioni in netto contrasto.
Se invece AF entra, di fatto AZ verrà ridotta a una piccola compagnia destinata a "servire" Parigi e Amsterdam.
Umilmente vedo le due posizioni in netto contrasto.
Una cosa che non capisco, ipotizziamo che il debito di AZ venga "sanato" ridotto il personale cancellate un numero x di rotte deficitarie e AZ messa su un piatto d'argento ad AF, i francesi
mettono una navetta dall'Italia su CDG e AMS e cosa succede tutti volano via CDG o AMS ?
Già adesso non mi pare che succeda cosi', per andare verso oriente la gente continuerà a prendere EK, CX , SQ ecc ecc , a mio modo di vedere sarebbe un accordo lose-lose
pero' non sono un francese .....
citerei alcuni punti dell'interessante articolo di FT, tutti da verificare:
1)“Our conditions for helping Alitalia are very strict,” Mr de Juniac told Les Echos, without outlining the details. “If the conditions are met, I am ready to move.”
2)Air France-KLM’s representatives on the Alitalia board voted against the Italian carrier’s proposal on September 26 for shareholders to contribute at least €100m of new capital because this was not viewed as sufficient to put the company on a sustainable footing, said two people close to the Franco-Dutch group.
3)“We won’t inject cash [into Alitalia] unless there are a lot of changes in operations and strategy,” said one person close to Air France-KLM
4)Potential rival Alitalia bidders shy away
Etihad Airways has signalled it is not interested in investing in Alitalia, writes Andrew Parker.
Some analysts have suggested that state-controlled Etihad could be an alternative strategic investor to Air France-KLM, but one person close to the Gulf airline rejected this scenario. “We are not interested [in Alitalia],” said this person.
5)Neil Glynn, analyst at Credit Suisse, says: “The stock market would not be surprised if Air France-KLM increased its investment in Alitalia. Air France-KLM will be keen to protect the valuable passenger traffic it secures from Alitalia at the flag carrier group’s Paris and Amsterdam hubs.”
6) Air France-KLM is the most leveraged of Europe’s big flag carrier groups, with net debt of €5.3bn, and therefore would be reluctant to assume Alitalia’s borrowings. MA SOPRATTUTTO:
7)“If we have to reduce [the workforce] in France it is difficult to explain to trade unions that we have to find cash to invest [in Alitalia],” said one person close to Air France-KLM.
1)“Our conditions for helping Alitalia are very strict,” Mr de Juniac told Les Echos, without outlining the details. “If the conditions are met, I am ready to move.”
2)Air France-KLM’s representatives on the Alitalia board voted against the Italian carrier’s proposal on September 26 for shareholders to contribute at least €100m of new capital because this was not viewed as sufficient to put the company on a sustainable footing, said two people close to the Franco-Dutch group.
3)“We won’t inject cash [into Alitalia] unless there are a lot of changes in operations and strategy,” said one person close to Air France-KLM
4)Potential rival Alitalia bidders shy away
Etihad Airways has signalled it is not interested in investing in Alitalia, writes Andrew Parker.
Some analysts have suggested that state-controlled Etihad could be an alternative strategic investor to Air France-KLM, but one person close to the Gulf airline rejected this scenario. “We are not interested [in Alitalia],” said this person.
5)Neil Glynn, analyst at Credit Suisse, says: “The stock market would not be surprised if Air France-KLM increased its investment in Alitalia. Air France-KLM will be keen to protect the valuable passenger traffic it secures from Alitalia at the flag carrier group’s Paris and Amsterdam hubs.”
6) Air France-KLM is the most leveraged of Europe’s big flag carrier groups, with net debt of €5.3bn, and therefore would be reluctant to assume Alitalia’s borrowings. MA SOPRATTUTTO:
7)“If we have to reduce [the workforce] in France it is difficult to explain to trade unions that we have to find cash to invest [in Alitalia],” said one person close to Air France-KLM.
- Stato