AA, DL e UA protestano contro vettori Qatar & UAE per concorrenza sleale
- Autore Discussione East End Ave
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WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States and the United Arab Emirates signed a deal Friday to resolve a years-old spat over alleged Emirati government subsidies to its airlines and accusations of unfair competition in the U.S.
After months of negotiations, the deal was signed in private at the State Department by Assistant Secretary of State Manisha Singh and Emirati Ambassador to the U.S. Yousef al-Otaiba. The State Department, the Emirati Embassy and a representative for the U.S. airlines all declined to comment. The Associated Press obtained the text of the agreement, known as a "record of discussion."
The deal is expected to be announced Monday when the Emirati foreign minister visits Washington, according to a State Department official, who wasn't authorized to speak to reporters about the agreement and requested anonymity.
The deal's language was carefully crafted to allow both the Emirati airlines and the U.S. airlines to claim victory.
Under the deal, Dubai-based Emirates and Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways agreed to voluntarily open up their accounting books by publishing annual financial statements "consistent with internationally recognized accounting standards." The major U.S. carriers — Delta Air Lines, American Airlines and United Airlines — have long alleged those financials obscure billions in hidden subsidies by the Emirati government.
In a side letter, the Emiratis state they currently have no plans to add more so-called "Fifth Freedom flights" in which passengers can fly to or from the United States to third countries without ever setting foot in the UAE. Those flights have long been the bane of the U.S. carriers, who argue the flights undercut their own routes.
Currently, Emirates offers flights directly from New York-area airports to Milan, Italy, and Athens. The U.S. airlines have feared Emirates or Etihad could expand their offerings by adding flights from Abu Dhabi or Dubai to, say, Paris or London, stop to pick up more passengers, then fly on to New York.
The U.S. airlines had sought a "freeze" — a binding commitment that they wouldn't offer any more Fifth Freedom flights — from the Gulf airlines. Under the deal and side letter, the Emiratis do not explicitly promise never to add more such routes, but simply indicate none are planned. Still, the agreement rests on a tacit understanding between the U.S. and Emirati governments that more routes won't be added, several individuals familiar with the negotiations said.
The U.S. airlines can also point to language included in the agreement that affirms their longstanding claim that Emirati government subsidies are hurting their business. The agreement says that both sides agree "that such government support in whatever form may adversely impact competition in providing international air transportation."
Yet in another example of how the deal gives both sides room to say that the other side caved, it also includes language that effectively states the opposite.
US Today
After months of negotiations, the deal was signed in private at the State Department by Assistant Secretary of State Manisha Singh and Emirati Ambassador to the U.S. Yousef al-Otaiba. The State Department, the Emirati Embassy and a representative for the U.S. airlines all declined to comment. The Associated Press obtained the text of the agreement, known as a "record of discussion."
The deal is expected to be announced Monday when the Emirati foreign minister visits Washington, according to a State Department official, who wasn't authorized to speak to reporters about the agreement and requested anonymity.
The deal's language was carefully crafted to allow both the Emirati airlines and the U.S. airlines to claim victory.
Under the deal, Dubai-based Emirates and Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways agreed to voluntarily open up their accounting books by publishing annual financial statements "consistent with internationally recognized accounting standards." The major U.S. carriers — Delta Air Lines, American Airlines and United Airlines — have long alleged those financials obscure billions in hidden subsidies by the Emirati government.
In a side letter, the Emiratis state they currently have no plans to add more so-called "Fifth Freedom flights" in which passengers can fly to or from the United States to third countries without ever setting foot in the UAE. Those flights have long been the bane of the U.S. carriers, who argue the flights undercut their own routes.
Currently, Emirates offers flights directly from New York-area airports to Milan, Italy, and Athens. The U.S. airlines have feared Emirates or Etihad could expand their offerings by adding flights from Abu Dhabi or Dubai to, say, Paris or London, stop to pick up more passengers, then fly on to New York.
The U.S. airlines had sought a "freeze" — a binding commitment that they wouldn't offer any more Fifth Freedom flights — from the Gulf airlines. Under the deal and side letter, the Emiratis do not explicitly promise never to add more such routes, but simply indicate none are planned. Still, the agreement rests on a tacit understanding between the U.S. and Emirati governments that more routes won't be added, several individuals familiar with the negotiations said.
The U.S. airlines can also point to language included in the agreement that affirms their longstanding claim that Emirati government subsidies are hurting their business. The agreement says that both sides agree "that such government support in whatever form may adversely impact competition in providing international air transportation."
Yet in another example of how the deal gives both sides room to say that the other side caved, it also includes language that effectively states the opposite.
US Today
Solo io ho l'impressione che gli americani si siano fatti infinocchiare per la miliardesima volta?
in linea di massima avrebbero cantato vittoria con fanfara e bandierona se si fosse potuto scrivere che le ME3 tagliavano voli, rotte e frequenze, in quinta o meno.
Invece, probabilmente, i giochi non sono proprio giochi e certe cose non si possono scrivere; e allora ecco che gli EAU sembra avessero piu' di uno scheletro economico negli armadi di Dubai, Abu Dhabi e Doha e quindi promettono da bimbi buoni di non aggiungere altri voli in quinta...mentre le US3 sanno che non potevano legalmente far di piu' e quindi vittoria democristiana per tutti...
Infatti un accordo a parte è già stato chiuso con QR; il succo è lo stesso, anche se come ho scritto trae in errore circa gli EAU.
Ma di nuovo, cambia davvero poco rispetto alla sostanza, non trovi Andrea?
Nota interna UA in merito:
UAE Gulf carrier update
On Monday, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo met in Washington, D.C., with the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation from the United Arab Emirates (UAE). As part of that meeting the governments announced an agreement that will begin to address the competitive impact of subsidies and other government support that have given state-owned Etihad Airways (EY) and Emirates (EK) an unfair advantage in the marketplace for years.
We, along with the Air Line Pilots Association, International and the Association of Flight Attendants and our fellow members in the Partnership for Open & Fair Skies, which includes Delta (DL) and American (AA), have been strongly urging the Trump Administration to enforce our aviation treaties and address the unfair practices of UAE and Qatar that put U.S. jobs and service at risk. In January, the governments of Qatar and the United States announced a similar agreement that begins to address the subsidies that have been given for years to state-owned Qatar Airways (QR).
“From the beginning, we’ve sought to level the playing field for America’s aviation industry and the millions of jobs it supports, as well as foster competition that, ultimately, benefits the American public,” said Oscar. “This development signals an important step in that direction, and we applaud the administration for its efforts. United Airlines will continue to work as a constructive partner in advancing a competitive environment where American aviation can thrive and consumers win.”
Under the agreement, both governments recognize the possible adverse impact of government support on competition. The UAE will commit to more financial transparency and disclosure and will adopt commercial best practices on transactions between the airlines and state-owned entities, including financing. UAE and U.S. officials will meet again within one year to review progress toward meeting these commitments. Related to the agreement, the government of UAE has also stated that EY and EK have no plans to add additional Fifth Freedom flights to the United States. Fifth Freedom flights are defined as routes that originate in an airline’s home country then touch down in a second country before arriving in a third nation.
UAE Gulf carrier update
On Monday, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo met in Washington, D.C., with the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation from the United Arab Emirates (UAE). As part of that meeting the governments announced an agreement that will begin to address the competitive impact of subsidies and other government support that have given state-owned Etihad Airways (EY) and Emirates (EK) an unfair advantage in the marketplace for years.
We, along with the Air Line Pilots Association, International and the Association of Flight Attendants and our fellow members in the Partnership for Open & Fair Skies, which includes Delta (DL) and American (AA), have been strongly urging the Trump Administration to enforce our aviation treaties and address the unfair practices of UAE and Qatar that put U.S. jobs and service at risk. In January, the governments of Qatar and the United States announced a similar agreement that begins to address the subsidies that have been given for years to state-owned Qatar Airways (QR).
“From the beginning, we’ve sought to level the playing field for America’s aviation industry and the millions of jobs it supports, as well as foster competition that, ultimately, benefits the American public,” said Oscar. “This development signals an important step in that direction, and we applaud the administration for its efforts. United Airlines will continue to work as a constructive partner in advancing a competitive environment where American aviation can thrive and consumers win.”
Under the agreement, both governments recognize the possible adverse impact of government support on competition. The UAE will commit to more financial transparency and disclosure and will adopt commercial best practices on transactions between the airlines and state-owned entities, including financing. UAE and U.S. officials will meet again within one year to review progress toward meeting these commitments. Related to the agreement, the government of UAE has also stated that EY and EK have no plans to add additional Fifth Freedom flights to the United States. Fifth Freedom flights are defined as routes that originate in an airline’s home country then touch down in a second country before arriving in a third nation.
A me sembra che dopo 3 anni di fanfara ed accuse le US3 non hanno raggiunto l'obiettivo che si erano prefissati. Neanche lontanamente.
Sostanzialmente non cambia nulla dell'accordo in atto, salvo una promessa delle ME3 di essere piu' trasparenti sui loro bilanci.
Tutto sommato una vittoria delle ME3 abbastanza importante.
Sostanzialmente non cambia nulla dell'accordo in atto, salvo una promessa delle ME3 di essere piu' trasparenti sui loro bilanci.
Tutto sommato una vittoria delle ME3 abbastanza importante.
Non condivido: poiche' non si puo' bloccare legalmente l'utilizzo di una quinta e' fondamentale che le ME3 abbiano preso l'impegno di non aprirne di nuove. Se ti par poco..
Da buoni arabi non hanno certo l'anello al naso e quindi non hanno firmato nessun impegno:
"the Emiratis do not explicitly promise never to add more such routes, but simply indicate none are planned".
Tipo, oggi no. Ma domani posso cambiare idea quando voglio.
Vi hanno infinocchiati a dovere.
ma no , figurati!
Tu giungi alle tue conclusioni e ogni confronto e' inutile; frequento questo forum da abbastanza tempo per aver compreso che ogni tentativo di affrontare il tuo punto di vista e' solo uno sforzo vano di mediare sulle posizioni; tu sai sempre tutto meglio di tutti e ne ho preso semplicemente atto.
Questo, credo a tua differenza, non preclude che io ti ritengo persona non solo ben informata e competente, ma anche sagace e caustica, talenti che ammiro e stimo.
Forse una domanda sul perche' nessuno si confronti con te potresti pure fartela pero'...
Obiettivamente a me pare pochissimo. Perdonami ma tre anni di accuse, spese legali, lobbying a livelli governativi e campagne populistiche per avere la controparte che alla fine ti dice che non ha "al momento intenzione di aggiungere" altre quinte liberta', non la considero ne una vittoria ma neanche un 1-1 palla al centro.
Le risate da Dubai e Doha si sentono fino a qui.
vedremo AZ209, magari si ride anche quando saranno acclarati i sussidi emiratini che distorcono il mercato?
E' la stessa frase che ripeti ciclicamente uguale a tutti quelli (moltissimi) che dissentono dal tuo modo di vedere e dire le cose.
Anzi guarda, non aspetto il tuo o vostro placet, buon prosieguo!
Confrontati con quello che scrive L’Economist e fatti pure tutte le domande che vuoi:
Airlines in America fail in their campaign against the Gulf carriers
But they do not want to admit it
A.W. | WASHINGTON, DC
But they do not want to admit it
ON MAY 14th the United States and United Arab Emirates (UAE) announced a deal that should, at least in theory, put an end to their long-simmering dispute over what airlines in America allege are unfair subsidies provided by the Gulf state to its two major airlines. News of the agreement had emerged three days earlier, prompting both sides to claim victory. American representatives claimed that the UAE had admitted that it had unfairly subsidised its flag carriers and had agreed not to add further so-called fifth-freedom flights, which are routes to the United States that do not originate in the UAE. (Breitbart News ran a triumphant story under the headline “Trump’s America First Agenda Wins Trade Dispute With United Arab Emirates.”) Meanwhile, the UAE ambassador to the United States argued essentially the opposite, stating that he was “very pleased” that Emirati airlines could continue to add fifth-freedom flights.
So who is right? Mostly, the UAE side. When you look at the real substance of the agreement, it is clear that the American airlines did not get anything they wanted. The main thing they sought was to put an end to those fifth-freedom flights, which cut into their business when Emirates and Etihad, the flag carriers of the states of Dubai and Abu Dhabi in the UAE, fly from their home bases to the United States via places such as Europe. The American carriers got some language they could point to in order to declare victory: the Emiratis stated in the deal that they have no plans to add new fifth-freedom routes. But the American claim of victory rings hollow, because there is nothing to prevent Emirates and Etihad from making such plans in the future.
The Americans also claimed a win because the UAE airlines promised to publish yearly reports on their finances that are up to international standards. The American airlines hope this will force them to fess up to the unfair government subsidies that the Americans think keep their Emirati rivals afloat. But it is not clear that Emirates and Etihad will have to disclose much more than they already do. Emirates, for instance, already publishes annual reports that are prepared in accordance with International Financial Reporting Standards and are audited by PwC, a British accounting firm. And the Americans also hailed language in the deal to the effect that “government support...may adversely impact competition in providing international air transportation.” But not only is that language vague and meaningless; it is also contradicted by another line in the agreement:
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The delegations stated that government support in whatever form—including policies, practices, and rules—is neither uncommon nor necessarily problematic in the global aviation sector.
The deal is similar to one struck between America and Qatar in January, which also averted the course of action the Gulf airlines most feared, namely a full renegotiation of the “open skies” treaties that allow them to fly freely between their home states and America. But in reality, despite making their case for years, the American airlines did not have much hope for a better outcome in these negotiations, because the substance of their claim against the Gulf carriers has always been lacking. Airlines in America have also enjoyed billions of dollars in various government subsidies over the years and it has always smacked of hypocrisy that they are taking aim at the Gulf carriers. The UAE deal gave the Americans just enough to allow them to declare victory and move on. But if this is what success looks like to American airlines, it is easy to understand why the service they provide remains so poor.
https://www.economist.com/gulliver/...l-in-their-campaign-against-the-gulf-carriers